Frank recalls growing up in Maleny on the family dairy farm and talks about his father and Mary Caincross Park
Interview with: Frank Woods
Interviewer: Louise Bauer
Frank talks about his father who consulted with the Thynne sisters about donating the land for Mary Caincross Park. He also discusses his father's time on council and how he championed the sealing of the local roads. Franks recalls growing up in Maleny on the family dairy farm and his school days at Maleny.
Image credit: Glass House Mountains from Mary Cairncross Scenic Reserve, Maleny, 1968.
Frank Woods oral history - Side A [MP3 45MB]
Frank Woods oral history - Side B [MP3 28MB]
LB: Right Frank when were you born?
FW: In Maleny
LB: In Maleny, and what year?
LB: And you were born at home or in Maleny hospital?
FW: I was born in Maleny Hospital
LB: Can you remember who the doctor was?
FW: Doctor O'Connor.
LB: Doctor O’Connor?
FW: I don’t remember but my Mum told me it was Doctor O'Connor
LB: And were you the oldest or?
LB: Youngest. Of how many children?
FW: Of 7 children
LB: Of 7 children? And you then had 8 children of your own, a little bit further down the track?
LB: So you were born in Maleny. When did you parents move to Maleny?
FW: About 1918, I think
LB: And what made them move to Maleny?
FW: Well, first of all, they came from the North of Ireland to Richmond Rivers and Dad’s first job in Australia was to help to build a bank at Clunes. I think it was an ESO Bank, I’m not really sure
LB: Clunes in ACT?
FW: No Clunes in Northern Rivers of NSW.
LB: Northern Rivers, right yeah.
FW: He got to know the Beacoms down there and one or two of those were exploring up in the Maleny district. And anyway, he got onto a farm down there and mum and dad they milked 80 cows by hand for something like about 50 pounds a month.
LB: Gee, wow.
FW: And um, course that was good wages those days, like considering. Anyway he wanted to, he wnated something of his own and all that sort of thing, so he, Jim Beacom came up and selected a piece of land at Balmoral Road Maleny. And Dad got to know of that and he came up to see the property and everthing else. So when he saw the property, he liked the district, he liked the area, there was no roads those days, it was just a, more or less a wagon track as you’d call it. Bullockies, they were getting the timber, mainly Cedar and Beech and when he returned, when he was up here, he sort of investigated and he returned home and he liked the district. So when Beacoms moved up here, he decided to come up and see what was offering. So the only thing that was offering was a property on Mountain View Road of which had only a few acres cleared.
LB: How big was that property? How big was it?
FW: It was 129 acres
LB: And just a few acres were cleared?
FW: Just a few acres cleared because the fellow that owned it, he was a Bullockie and he only had a few acres cleared to feed his bullocks. And anyway he, Dad decided to after a bit of a negotiation and that to rent it. So he came up and rented it for five years with the option of purchase. There was a little four room dwelling on it and, there was a sort of, they built barrels then and he got work and he got some cattle together and started a little dairy. But of course the big problem was that they were only starting up a factory in Maleny and everthing had to be packed. Anyhow when Mum moved up here it was an all day session, you came up by train to Landsborough and then you caught the wagon up to Maleny
LB: And when was that, when did your Mum come up?
FW: Around about 1919 I would think, something like about that
LB: So a year or so later?
FW: Yes. Anyway it worked out that, the only place, it was dark when they arrived in, up at Maleny and as there was no stove in the house, they boiled up their billie and cooked their meal in the middle of the road. So anyway it was only bullock wagons in those days, there was no traffic or anything like that
LB: Who was the man who owned the property before your Dad, the Bullockie?
FW: Ah, Walker.
FW: He was a, he had other properties in the district which he had selected and was taking cedar off and timber off it. Anyway he rented this place with the option of purchase and got going with their dairy, and working here and there, you know, trying to get a few pounds together. Anyway my eldest brother, he was born in Lismore, he was only small when they came up here, there was the 3 girls, one girl was born in Lismore, the second girl, the second. Let’s get this straight, the twins were born in Northern Island, they were the two eldest, they came out when they were about 2 or 3 with Mum and Dad to Lismore and the third girl, Maudie, she was born in Lismore, and Allenn was born in Lismore. Then after they moved up to Maleny, Albert was born at the house
LB: At home
FW: At home. Johnny, he’s the next boy, he was born in Brisbane and of course I was born in Maleny.
LB: You went to school in Maleny too, didn’t you?
FW: Yeah I went to school in Maleny. Getting back to the farm. There was another farm came up in Bald Knob area and Dad rented that for a while, got some cattle together, got the farm going and with the help of the boys and the girls, before they went to school, he ran that place, Mum ran the home place with what help she had and dad ended up accumulating enough money to purchase the Bald Knob place. That was purchased before Maleny.
LB: And was that a similar amount of acres?
FW: No, it was about 220 acres down there. It was deep country, but it was good country. Anyway when the, it came up at Maleny, he was able to put down his deposit and pay it off to the bank. Then the big drought came
LB: When was that, what year was that? When it was at its worst
FW: I think it was, I’m not really sure, I think it was 1919-1920. And he lost 70 head of dairy cattle. The drought was, it was a hard time for the farmers and it broke on New Years Day with a hail storm and the cattle were just frozen to death with the hail. It was feet of hail and there was still a hail line in the gullies the next day
LB: Did you actually lose cattle?
FW: Yeah, they lost, they just about bankrupted. So they went out to a fellow by the name of Copeley, he was a fellow from Southern Ireland and he sort of helped them a bit and they got, they decided to stick to it and fight it out, so they did and made a success of it.
LB: It must have been a hard life
FW: Very hard life, cause those days you had to milk by hand, separate by hand and feed pigs with the separated milk and then pack your cream into Maleny
LB: To the butter factory
FW: To the butter factory. Then, as time went on, as more dairy's opened up and more land got cleared, and we started to get neighbours. And then we used to take our cream, one of them would run the cream in on a horse and cart one day, and then your neighbour would do it the next day, and it ended up you’d, instead of going everyday to town you would only go now and then
LB: That’s good, so you all worked co-operatively
FW: Yeah, we worked co-operatively. And then, from then on, you know, Queen Carters was started up, he was a fella up the road, a Scotsman, he decided to put a wagon, a four wheel wagon on the road, and he ran the cream in, we paid him so much.
LB: Can you remember his name?
FW: George Lumstom, he was a Scotsman and the McCarthys, he used to cart McCarthy's, MacKies, oh about half a dozen or more
LB: So there were a fair few families dairying at that time. Is that what most people in Maleny did?
FW: Yeah, well they then, of course, when the roads improved, and one thing and another like that. Of course, those days there was no money for councils to do any sort of work on roads or anything like that. And when the roads improved, then the trucks came
LB: So who built the roads, did the people who lived there build the roads virtually?
FW: No, the councils and the main roads
LB: It was just slow
FW: Yeah, well it was just, as it progressed. They didn’t get much rates those days, there was no Government helps or anything like that, no money for anything. Then of course they were going through the big depression then and there was no money for anybody, no jobs, it was a real trying time. And then the depression, it went right through to about, well into the ‘30's. And it was a hard time for people, but anyhow, I can remember when I started school there was no bitumen road in Maleny. The township was just dirt and gravel. In those days there was no trucks to cart the gravel, it was all horse and dray. The dray used to bring in, bring the, cart the gravel out onto the bad spots and tip it. And then they’d hand spread it all
LB: Was there one particular person who did that kind of carting work? Or one company?
FW: No, no, the dray used to be owned by the council and the, there would be one or two men in Maleny that would, they were everything, you know, they were, they done the council work, and they done, went round and inspected work needed and they done whatever work was needed
LB: And when did you father come to procure the mountain view property?
FW: He bought that after he’d bought Bald Knob. It was, he was paying off when the big drought hit and then of course, that gave him a big set back. Banks wouldn’t advance you any money or anything like that when you lost your cattle. So he was able to get a private Prockely was the private fellow that he was able to borrow some money off and get time to pay for it and all that sort of thing. He battled on and he eventually paid it off, we had to clear it, plant more grass and get more cattle
LB: And how did you clear it?
FW: Well it was all grubber and brush it. There was nothing else, there was no other way of clearing it and the road making well it was only just made, all you done was just run along and filled up the very deep holes with a bit of gravel to stop the wagons from going down out of sight. And the roads were only just through the trees. But I remember going out one day with my brother in the spring cart and he got a bit of speed up, and if you weren’t careful you’d hook one of your, you’d hook a wheel round one of the trees when you went round, winding around. And he hit one of these trees and it just about threw us all out. Of course, horse and sulky was the only we went to town.
LB: And every family had their own horse and sulky?
FW: Oh yeah
LB: And most children had their own horses?
FW: Yes, well all, we double-backed, double-backed, triple-backed, it depends on the size of the children. And it was, it was all horse
LB: And you went to school in Maleny, didn’t you? Maleny School
LB: So how many children were there, when you were there, can you remember roughly?
FW: Well round about 120. And there were 3 teachers
LB: 3 teachers?
FW: 3 teachers and 3 rooms and under the school, you know if we had anything special on, we used that too. Such as milk testing, we done that at school, that was probably the most important thing, you'd take a bit of milk to school, to test it to see what it tested like.
LB: Can you remember the teacher’s names or any of the teachers?
FW: Yes, well there was Miss Kingsford, that was my first lady teacher, she taught me in Prep 1, prep 2, prep 3, grade 1, grade 2. And then there was John Molbridge, he was transferred from somewhere, I don’t know, I think Brisbane somewhere, and he was our teacher for a long time, he was a wonderful teacher. He was good on music, he was a good sportsman, he taught us how to play cricket. And I remember when Bradman was a test cricketer here. Of course, wirelesses those days were very, very few and far between. He took us one lunch hour over to his house to hear the English test where Bradman was playing cricket
LB: He took the whole school or the whole class?
FW: No, just the ones that played cricket
LB: But it must have been a good lunch hour?
FW: Oh yes, it was a bit of an extended lunch hour too, because, you know, we didn’t want to leave there. We enjoyed it, it was something that was quite a thrill
LB: And did you have sports teams for the school?
FW: Yeah, yeah, we used to play Witta. Course, those days Witta had their own school, North Maleny had their school. There was a, the Wootha school, and there was the Brooban school. But of course they were all small schools and it made, you know, a couple of schools had to come together to play us in Maleny because we were the biggest school of them. There was also a school at Bald Knob.
LB: There must have been a lot of children, so it was a growing town then?
FW: Well, the whole place was turning into dairy, it was a dairying district, there were dairies popping up everywhere, because that was the only industry that was going to be in Maleny. They started other things. Out at Reeceville they tried to grow coffee, and the weather was against them. They tried sheep, but the weather was to wet to grow sheep and footrot beat them. Then there was a few smaller places that grew citrus, they done alright. Then a couple of fellows started avocados, not avocada, macadamia nuts, they planted a few trees of macadamia nuts and they found that they done very well in Maleny, so there were a few put in a few acres just as a side line
LB: And when was that? Was that around the depression time or afterwards?
FW: It was after the depression
LB: After the depression. When everyone had picked themselves up?
FW: Yeah, well as the saying is everybody sort of had to do something to sort of get out of the doldrums of the depression. It was a big trying time for the people. Of course we went to school barefooted, people couldn’t afford shoes.
LB: Did you have a school uniform?
FW: No, there was no such thing as school uniforms. Mum used to make all our own clothes. In those days McWhirters would send out an agent, or a traveller, and he’d come into your house and he’d take orders we’ll say, of what material you ordered, what else you wanted and everything else. And Mum used to, he'd bring samples of material, and Mum would order that and then it would railed up you. Then of course there was the Queensland Parcel Suppliers, they had a traveller out too to get grocery orders.
LB: How often did they come round?
FW: Oh, about once in six months
LB: So you’d have a big order?
FW: Well, you see once you've got one order, then you could send down and get another order and all that sort of thing. Particularly, particularly Christmas time, you know for the
LB: For the hams?
FW: And those sort of things, and of course, we kids used to always like to see the grocery order come, because there would always be a, in those days, boiled lollies, you bought them by the tin full. And at Christmas time, the Queensland Parcel Suppliers would put in a tin of boiled lollies. And of course this was real Christmas
LB: That would have been a special treat?
FW: That was the special treat
LB: How did it get up to Maleny?
FW: It would be brought up by rail to Landsborough and then by wagon to Maleny. Well then later on, Salloways they started up a truck business when the roads improved.
LB: When abouts was that?
FW: Oh that would have been in, round about, about 35, 36. The roads were nearly good enough for a truck to run on and then I remember we getting our first motorcar was in 1939
LB: What sort of car was that one?
FW: That was an Oldsmobile. And it cost 500 pounds in those days.
LB: Bit different now.
FW: And that was a lot of money, that was a lot of money. The Cheve would be around about 350, the Buick was the top car those days, it would be about 550 or 560. And then of course you know you had problems of getting, you only took it out when the weather was good, because if you took it out in the wet weather well you wouldn’t get anywhere
LB: Did many people have cars?
FW: There was only about 3 or 4 cars in Maleny at that particular time there was the Doctor, and of course the ambulance had an old ambulance car
LB: What sort of car was that? Was the a truck?
FW: I think it was an old Buick converted to an ambulance. And when mum first came up to Maleny there was no ambulance. She told me that somebody got very seriously ill and they put them on a stretcher that was on wheels and they wheeled him to Landsborough and then by train then to Brisbane
LB: That’s a long haul if you very ill
FW: And of course when I left school the first thing I had to do was to join the ambulance. I had to join the ambulance cause Mum said when she came here there was no ambulance and no nothing, so she said you join the ambulance and you’ve got to keep our ambulance going
LB: It’s a very important service in a small town, isn’t it?
FW: So that’s what I did and anyway all those years and I’m still a member. Anyway, getting back to the road, they gradually improved. They got, my Dad got into the Council and a few of the Councillors, then they decided to bitumen a strip down through Maleny and of course that was a great celebrating time, to see a strip of bitumen in Maleny
LB: What sort of celebrations were there, what did the town do when that happened?
FW: Ah well, some of them went to the pub and got full, and others, you know
LB: It wasn’t an actual event planned or anything?
FW: No, no it was a nothing event, it was just great to see it and of course from then on it improved. The first bitumen road built in Queensland was one mile out of Landsborough and I think it cost 16 thousand pounds to built it, the first mile of bitumen
LB: That’s expensive, what year was that?
FW: It was, I can’t remember what year it was. It was all hand mapped, the middle was all hand mapped, the road was formed up by bullock wagons, by bullock drawn scoops and ploughs and horse drawn scoops. And when my Dad got into the Council, his idea of Council work was to build a mile of bitumen every year and cut down all these costs
LB: And your father was a Councillor was he, he was a member of Landsborough?
FW: He became a member of Landsborough Shire Council
LB: Round about when?
FW: Oh I think it was after the war, I think it was
LB: Did he serve a couple of terms with them, was he there for a fair while?
FW: He was there until he died. Matter of fact, he took a stroke the morning he was going to a council meeting
LB: And who was the chairman, can you remember who was the chairman?
FW: Harry Bray was the chairman at that particular time. And from 19, 5, 41 he became councillor, that was, the war ended in 1940, didn’t it
LB: That’s right, no 45
FW: 45, yeah it was during the war he got in. And of course you could do nothing during the war much, because petrol, well, we only got 5 gallons of petrol for the month. And you see we, you couldn’t go very far on 5 gallons of petrol.
LB: That was the ration.
FW: That was your ration. That had to last us for the full month. Anyway, after the war, Dad got onto the Council and there was lots of sales of equipment. And number one thing was, that Dad’s vision was bitumen, bitumen roads, the only way you are going to have a road in this wet area. Anyway, he brought it up before the council, there was a sale coming up somewhere up in the north here, of a crusher and he had negotiated with the Nesbitt boys at Bald Knob, they had a wonderful supply of blue metal rock there, big boulders they were, and they wanted them cleared off the land because nobody could do anything with these big boulders. Dad said to the Nesbitt boys, he said, well, he said, I’m going to put it before the Council, it was a great vision of me Dad, to buy a crusher and we'll put a crusher there and we'll blast all these big rocks, turn them into crushed metal and this is going to save us a lot of money. So anyhow, he bought it before the Council to, to go to the sale and allow him to spend, we’ll say 2000 pounds. And as this was number 2 division up there, the Caloundra Councillors were against it because they said Huh, he'll have the control of all the crushed metal and they wouldn’t vote for him. So he failed. Anyway, that was in the morning session, in the afternoon session he brought the matter up again. And this time he said that seeing that I have failed to get finance or financial assistance to buy this crusher, I will go to my bank manager in the next day or two and I will go round and I’ll raise the money from other fellas, other sources and I'll buy this myself. They all looked at him and said, uh, then he’ll have full control, he'll be a millionaire, so they decided then to give him permission to buy this crusher. So anyhow they went to the sale and they bought this crusher for 1200 pounds
LB: And was that a good price
FW: That was a good price and they installed it at Bald Knob and he estimated that they would have at least 30 years of rock there to. Anyway this was a great boom and also they bought some of these army disposal trucks and started having there own trucks. Dad always maintained, before this they had hired trucks, they would hire a fellow with a truck and cart whatever they would and then that was it. But having your own truck, you had it there all the time and you only had to pay the man to drive it. So, they got this crusher going, and then of course, they started getting one or two trucks, then the whole thing just took off. And then of course they got a grader, ‘cause before that it was horse drawn graders
LB: How long were they horse drawn for?
FW: They were only little things, they weren’t much good. But the motorised grader it was quite good, they bought those second hand from army disposals. It was the kick off before the Council getting their own gear together
LB: And the start of the whole quarry in that area
FW: Yeah, yeah, anyway they, then during Dad’s time it got so big that the Councillors, as the Shire developed and that, they, they had to get an overseer, a fellow to, you know, to sort of work the whole Shire and that’s when it all sort of started to boom
LB: And who did they get for that? Do you remember who that was?
LB: And was he a local man?
FW: I don’t know where he came from but, I think they advertised and Nema and now his son’s doing the same sort of work here. And that’s how it all sort of took off. And the Main Roads, they granted them so much, they got so much money from Main Roads and built a bitumen road up to Maleny, right through Maleny, then through to Conondale. I can remember Conondale was only a gravel, was only a dirt road, then a gravel road. The cream trucks, once the cream trucks got on the road, then they had to improve them. ‘Cause they got registrations and they got money
LB: So the roads really opened up the whole range? Once that’d started, everything became ?? for everyone else
FW: Mmm, Mmm, when Dad died in 1954, the number 2 division had the most bitumen road of any, any shire or division of any shire in Queensland
LB: So he achieved his vision?
FW: While Dad was in the Council he was also Local Authorities representative in Brisbane and he ran a couple of bus loads of people from the local authorities, that had been down to Brisbane to attend a meeting, to see this bitumen project and they were amazed and it really started off, a lot of them went back and done the same thing in their Shire
LB: So it started all the other areas thinking of the same thing?
FW: It started all the other areas off, they could see that the potential was good. Crushing their own metal didn’t cost them that much, and they were able to get out and poor a bit of bitumen on, and then the road was sealed. Then, then they had no maintenance work to do or anything else like that. And it was a great thing
LB: That’s a good contribution to the community, isn't it? If you can do something like that
FW: Mmm, Mmm
LB: He must have been proud of that contribution?
FW: Oh yeah, he was very proud of his bitumen roads and all that sort of thing.
LB: That’s along stint in Council, that’s 13 years, 13 - 14 years
FW: Mmm, Mmm
LB: And there was just one Chairman through all that? Mr Bray?
FW: Oh, Bray was Chairman for a number of years there, I don’t, I can’t just. When Dad died they all wanted me to go into the Council, but nuh, I wouldn’t take it on because there was too much, I was too busy with the farm and another thing to. There was too much, see I was on the farm, I took over the farm, and he was free to do these sort of things but ah, no I wouldn’t take it on. Another thing too, it’s a big responsibility
LB: It takes up a lot of time, doesn’t it?
FW: Takes up a lot of time, you’ve got to be working at it all the time, you can’t just go there and do one days work and forget about it then. So I stepped out of it. It was during his period that, or getting back, you want this Miss Thynne business do you,
LB: Yeah, your property is near the Thynne’s
FW: Yeah, yeah it’s only about, a quarter of a mile past.
LB: And have you known them most your life, you said the girls
FW: Well, let us start from the beginning about this, this Thynne business. Now the, Miss Thynnes, as I knew them, they were old ladies, so they weren’t, they never married. They were 3 old spinsters.
LB: Three sisters.
FW: Three sisters
LB: And did they all live together?
FW: Yeah, they lived together. Now the Honourable A.J Thynnes, their father, he was a big top solicitor in Brisbane and he also became Lord Mayor of Brisbane. I can’t tell you the date when he was Lord Mayor or anything like that, but he was Lord Mayor in the day of the horse drawn tram, so it would be well back. These girls, they, he married a woman by the name of Mary Cairncross. Now Cairncross, she is the same family as the Cairncross dock family that built the docks. And she was a Protestant and he was a Roman Catholic. So, in those days, mixed marriages like that, they brought them up Roman Catholic. So these, they had 3, they had 3 girls and two boys, of a family. Now, the girls were sent to Catholic schools and the boys were sent to Nudgee College. Now, the girls were very highly educated, in those days they couldn’t become solicitors, but they became, what they done is when they left school and finished their schooling, they came and worked in Dads offices as secretaries or whatever you’d like to call them in those days. But they were, they were as good as any solicitor, they knew the law backwards.
LB: Back to front. Well their father was a solicitor, wasn’t he?
FW: Yeah and he, the boys, Andrew, he became a solicitor and he married a Protestant girl and Dad didn’t approve of it and he kicked him out of the business. So he started up a business I think somewhere in Brisbane and then he moved to Nambour. Ted, was the other boy and he went to school until he was 21 years of age.
LB: In Brisbane
FW: He finished his school at Nudgee College and the old fellow said he couldn’t make nothing out of him so he sent him to Gatton College and old Thynne he had selected quite a lot of land up in Maleny
LB: About how much, do you know?
FW: He, be about two or three hundred acres or might be three or four hundred acres in the Mountain View - Balmoral Area and then another selection down at Baroon Pocket, where the dam is today. Now, he sent him to Gatton College and he reckoned he was going to make a farmer out of him, so anyhow that was alright, he, he went to school till he was 21 down there and anyhow, the old fella got tired of him at school and sent him up, and put him up in the farm up there. He married a girl by the name of Glasgow, and she was Protestant. Anyway, the kids were bought up Catholic so that suited the old fella and he, when old Thynne died, Ted got the farm down in Baroon Pocket and of course Ted was always an experimenting fella, he experimented with this and experimented with that, he tried to grow lucerne and harvest and it failed, he tried this and he tried that and he tried something else
LB: This is all over a period of years?
FW: Yeah, yeah, anyway he ended up going broke and the bank sold out the farm. And the sisters, they wouldn’t work for anybody else, only Dad. So what they done is, they acquired the properties in Maleny, they built a house up there and the 3 of the came up and retired in Maleny and that’s how the ladies got up there. Anyhow, they employed labour then to clear some of the scrub, and start a dairy off, they had to have an income. And when Ted went broke they decided then, oh well, Ted can come up and run the farm, so Ted came up and ran the farm. When we were kids we used to go over there shooting. And Ted
LB: What did you shoot?
FW: Pigeons and, in the scrub, there was thousands of flocked pigeons, in the season, and wild turkeys. Anyway, these ladies didn’t like us shooting in there, or didn’t like people shooting in there, so they sent Ted round one day, to catch us. And anyhow, Ted ended up at our place. And of course Dad and Ted were always good mates and worked together and that. And Dad and Ted was in having a cup of tea when we came home, the brothers and I with our flock pigeons and whatnot. Here we find Ted. Anyhow we put the flock pigeons under the house and came up into the house and Ted said you been over in the bush shooting. We said yes Mr Thynne, we were. All right boys, don’t let me catch ya. So, but anyhow they had notices around the scrub where your not allowed to go in and shoot and all this sort of thing.
LB: And was it mainly their property that they didn’t like
LB: They were the ones who objected to it mostly, in the town
FW: Yeah, yeah, and anyway as time went on, like in, Ted, Ted had a motor. I can’t just tell you the time, it was before we had a motorcar and Dad always liked to, Dad employed him to take us kids to the, and Mum and Dad, we used to go down to the exhibition for a day
LB: Down to Brisbane
FW: Down to Brisbane, it would take us 3 hours, 3 and a half hours from Maleny to Brisbane
LB: In the oldsmobile?
FW: No, no, no, in Ted’s car, this was before Ted, before we got our oldsmobile in 1939. And anyway, Ted was always, you know, we liked him, he was always welcome at our place and he’d always come over have a yarn, a cup of tea and all that sort of thing. Anyway he, as these ladies, as the years went on and Dad was in the, he had only just been in the Council for a short time and, these ladies were thinking what are we going to do about properties and what are we going to do with this and all of that so it was after the end of the war because Thynne’s had about I ‘spose they would have nearly two hundred acres of standing scrub virgin scrub. And the soldier’s settlement got on to them and they were going to take this off them and make soldier settlement out of it. So as these ladies knew the law very well they decided that, well, we’re going to prove to these that we’re still clearing. So they cleared 5 acres on Mountain View Road.
LB: Was that the basis of the Soldier settlement would take, if you weren’t using
FW: If you weren’t using land they’d take the land off you.
LB: And they’d give people small acreages of their own
FW: And they would, they would make Soldier Settlement out of it and probably make two farms out of that
LB: Was there much of that around Maleny?
FW: No, there was none. That was the only one that was tackled, it was mainly down at Beerwah for pineapple grooving or all that sort of thing. Anyway, they, they, cleared 5 acresand that was, they were able to save their land. Because they were proving to the government they were clearing the land for dairying purposes. So Ted had to he had a big problem there cause when he planted in grass it was all eaten by wallabies so he decided then to put a netting wire fence all round it so he netting wired it all round
LB: The whole 5 acres?
FW: The whole 5 acres and he had a when he did get the grass established there he had to brush a track through the virgin scrub to get the cows through so this was quite a progress and probably the only easy to off two or three times or four or five times in the year because it was a bit of a hassle with the cows and everything else But anyhow as time went on the soldier settlement left them alone they cleared no morethey loved their bit of scrub and abyway as these ladies were well in their seventies and eighties now and they were beginning to think now we’ve got to something about our estateone thing and another like So they wanted to leave something in memory of their mother Mary Cairncross
LB: Mary Cairncross
FW: So Dad knew them very well and they were good friends and everything else of the family and they range him up and there was Mabel, she was the, she was the top girl
LB: She was the eldest, Mabel?
FW: Mabel was the well she was she was shall I say the boss of the three you know she was the business one the other ones would go along with her, Mabel Mary and Josephine. And they anyway they wanted to leave something so they thought they’d leave this 5 acres of cleared land out there as a park in memory of their mother so anyway this is the proposition they put to Dad and Dad went over there one morning nad spent the whole day with them discussing this proposition and he asked them now what are you going to do with the scrub well we haven’t decided what we’d do with that yet we haven’t given it a though well he said put it this way if you leave it to the church they’ll, they’ll probably make a Boystown out of it or an orphanage or something like that and they’ll knock it all down and you’ll not see any more scrub He said his suggestion was to them that they leave the, a hundred acres of it so the Council can be trustee somebody something somebody who’d loive longer than we are if you leave it to a person to be trustee well alright they’re gone in a lifetime and you’ve got no say he left that with me he said well he said ..and then we can you can get back to me so about a week went past and they range him up and asked him what day could he come over he went over another day and spent quite a bit of time with them and that they they came up with hi idea they thought it was a grand idea as Dad pointed out in generations to come they won’t know what Maleny looked like what a bit of scruvb was Nother thing too he said it’s a beautiful level piece of ground he said where could oyu find a lovely level piece of scrub land where invalid people people on walking sticks people in wheelchairs and invalid people can go in to the scrub a little bit. And no they were quite amazed the statement that Dad put up anyroad they agreed that they would give a hundred acres plus this park to to be held in trust not to the council but to Council doesn’t own it it’s to be held in trust for all times
LB: And the Council as the trustees
FW: the council is the trustees because its no use in giving it to a person because a person would be dead and gone on twenty years thirty years time or whatever it is it would be quite a problem
LB: You’d have to solve the legal problems again then
FW: So the council is was nominated as trustee and its well drawn up because my Dad didn’t want the it’s drawn up that way that the council cannot go in there and knock some of the scrub down
LB: That was one of the conditions, was it?
FW: That’s one of the conditions. Secondly, it is not to be made commercial. They’re not to uild a a boarding house there they’re not to build a guest house there they’re not to buil a restaurant there they’re not to build any of those sort of things there
LB: That makes any capital at all
FW: They’re not, they’ve got no they’ve got no right to build anything that there
LB: And those conditions go on forever it has to be left as scrub
FW: It needs to be, it’s to be left as scrub and anyway that was that was drawn up and I think nomination of trustee dated back to the twentieth of the tenth 1941certificate of title issued on the twenty-fifth of the fifth 41, 100 acres
LB: 100 acres
End of Side A
Side B (Starts at 32 seconds)
LB: So 100 acres. What happened to the other 5 acres? That wasn’t actually included
FW: The 5 acres that was cleared is included
LB: Is included in the original 100 acres
FW: Yeah, yeah, yeah Dad got a hundred acres of extra, extra scrub. Then of course down the track whenever the, those old ladies Thynnes died and one thing and another like that the farm was sold up and of course the council had a bit more of the scrub
LB: The Council purchased somdidn’t they and she left another
FW: No, the Council never purchased any
LB: They didn’t purchase it
FW: They didn’t purcashe any As one of the farms were broken up as the farms have been broken up into housing estates or blocks the council claimed that they had to get so much park like they do today and they they’ve been able to add bits to it So it’s well over a hundred acres of scrub there now
LB: And where did this
FW: So that was where’s the
LB: Where did the Thynne ladies live? Did they, they didn’t live on that propertythey gave up but they lived on one of the other hundreds
FW: No it was the one block but they lived on Landsborough Road side of it see the scrub park was on Mountian View Road
LB: And that’s the home that they’d built when they went up there after leaving Brisbane
FW: Mmmm, Mmm, Mmm
LB: Did their father have a home there as well?
FW: I think he, I think they sort of had a nbit of a weekend house or somethinglike that but that was they never went up there much I don’t think
LB: So the aim really of the Thynne ladies and your father was to preserve a piece of scrub so that people could see what Maleny was like
FW: Mmm, Mmm
LB: Right from the word go because was originally part of the original slelctionby Isaac Burgess wasn’t it? The first selection on Maleny
FW: No no no I don’t think Burgess ever selected that they they selected next to it
LB: Oh right
FW: That was originally selected by Thynne
LB: And do you think that the Thynne family would be happy with the way it’s being managed at the moment?
FW: I think so. I think so
LB: I think and they’d like to see it stay much the same
FW: Mmm, Mmm. No the Council can’t they just can’t I remember Dave ?Hancerson? saying to me they were looking round to build a swimming pol in Maleny and it was before they decided to build it out at the school they were looking round for block to build a swimming pool Anyhow he said to me one day he said I’m going to bring it up at the next Council meeting that we build the swimming pool out at out in the park I said Dave I said you will not get it permission to build a swimming pool in the park Is adi it’s too well drawn up So anyhow a few months later I saw him and I said how’d you get on about the swimming pool Aaaagh we can’t do anything by crikes that old fella of your old dad of yours got it drawn up well that he, he that we can do nothing with it. So it’s just got to stop there as is
LB: As is
FW: Yeah we shut our we course in Dad’s day he saved a few bob along the lines I think when he died he was about a hundred twenty pounds to sort of improve the seats and tables and things but then we never he died Dave ?Hankerson? was always against the park he never liked it because it was next door it was only breeding vermin and he him and the new Councillor rixon Burn they snaffled the hundred odd punds out of the park to save money and put it into the Council revenue againand it was only when Rotary came tht they took it on as a project and they built the tables and
LB: And when did Rotary first get involved in it round about?
FW: Oh, it would have been around the fifties
LB: And they put all the tracks
FW: They brushed a few of the tracksjust progressively and then they built the tables and they built a shelter shed and a tank of water then the vandals well at that particular time it was over the Christmas period the vandals attacked it and they they pulled a whole tables up and burnt the wood Tesch’s sawmill, Tesch’s were Rotary men, they used to supply the firewood and they had a big bonfire there and burnt pulled the tap out of the tank and wrecked things
LB: Has that happened many times?
FW: Had a big drinking party there and broke bottles and we were we went over there and collected all that rubbish and cleaned it all up Anywaywe got on to the Council and asked them to build a house there and put a caretaker there it was the only way to overcome that problem so that’s what they’ve got today
LB: And when the was the caretaker the house and the caretaker installed? Round about when would that have been?
FW: I can’t just give you the you’ll have to get that from the Council I can’t remember the dates you know
LB: And The park was named after Mary Cairncross
FW: After, after their mother
LB: Right after their mother you never knew her at all
FW: No No she was Her and old Thynne they were passed on before I knew themI ponly knew the Ted and the cause Ted, Ted was a man I spose he’d be in his fifties or sixties when I lknew himyou know
LB: Well, I’ve, I’ve read that Mary Cairncross was interested in keeping that park exactly as it was so it was a sample of the wildlife and the flora and fauna that lived there and that’s what you’ve heard to?
FW: Mmm, Mmm, it’s all times
LB: Can you see anyone way that it could be improved like if if they were to change it someway it would only be
FW: Well I think the biggest problem today is that it’s an attractive place I think the biggest problem today is that there’s too many people you see somebody said that there was over a million people visit that park in the twelve months
FW: That’s a tremendous amount of people in holiday time and weekends that park, that 5 acres of park practically full of cars Then throughout, throughout the week you’ve got busloads of people and kids from school it’s just enormous
LB: The schools are
FW: And I think, I think what will happen is that as the population grows and grows and grows and grows and more people come more visitors come, they’ll just tramp the place out
LB: That’s a problem, isn’t it?
FW: They though I think that’s going to be the problem in the next thirty of forty years you know
LB: So they’ll have to maybe look at ways of controlling how many people go in and out
FW: Well I think they’ll have to do something like that or find another, ‘nother area where they can develop and. over the escarpment somewhere, where they where they can accommodate the overflow
LB: And how did the township of Maleny feel about the gift of the hundred acres when it was made? Were people generally pleased?
FW: Oh well no no a lot of ‘em thought it was good and the the town itself thought it was good but the neighbours around they didn’t like it because it was, it was only harbouring vermin such as dingoes and wallabies it was eaten their grass and all that sort of thing
LB: And was that part of the Council’s trust, that they had to control that verminwether it be animals or
FW: Well, no as the, as the placed developed you see people well if the wallabies got too too extensive in your place there you shot ‘em. When they were in your place and the dingoes if, if they were killing your cattle and that you shot them or tracked them or poisoned themand that’s how they controlled them. And it, it automatically controlled
LB: What did the Thynne family actually use that land for? Did they use it
FW: They never used it at all
LB: They never used it?
FW: They, they fell in love with the scrub and they didn’t like to see it cut down so they, they just battled along with a certain size, a certain area which they dairyed off and they left that scrub
LB: And the rest was just virgin? I read that it was used as a place to house pigs overnight? That the, that the people from Witta used to run their pigs down thereand they’d house them overnight before they went down to Lansborough in the early days of Maleny
FW: Run, run
FW: Oh, well, no well that’s getting back before the trucksbefore the For instance well when I was a kid going to school we had to drive all our cattle to the to the to be trucked away to the slaughter yards and to the Brisbane abattoirs and all that sort of thing You dorve them to Landsborough and they were trucked by train. The pigs prior to that they were driven down at night time with hurricane lamps. You, You somebody would go ahead with a little sprinkle of corn and away you’d go with your pigs. And they drove them down
LB: And that’s
FW: But then of course the motor transport came in then and of course fellas they used to take them down on bugboards and then of course motor transport came in and they were trucked in. Today nobody drives anything it’s sort of all trucks see
LB: That’s right. So that would have been very early days
FW: Very early days yes
LB: So it was never really farmed as such it was never a a
FW: Nuh. It was never it’s virgin scrub it’s never been felled. They might of taken a few logs out of it but it was never felled That’s orginal scrub there’s some of them old fig trees there probably two or three hundred years old
LB: An what sort of timber’s on it. Is there cedar
FW: It’s scrub scrub timber. Cedar there’s all the all the cherry and all the scrub varieties fig and Beech and ??
LB: And that’swhat
LB: That’s what Maleny was covered in but
LB: but people have dairyed or
FW: Yeah yeah
LB: Used the land for whatever purposes
FW: Yeah and lawyervine and plenty of lawyervine
LB: Plenty of lawyervine
FW: With years of skipping rope at school
LB: Did you? How did you do that?
FW: The teachers used to used to use it to give us a caning
LB: Bet that hurt. And back to your school days you were in Maleny during the depression and the war and school Was there any big event that happened when you were at school? That you can remember
FW: Well, my older sisters and brothers they remember the coming back of the Diggersfrom First World War. I went to, I was just about finishing school well I what happened was I got a scholarship in 1940, 40? Yeah 1940. So I went to school during the war period we used to, every day we used to hear something over the wireless and we’d we’d discuss at school you know how the war was going and all that sort of thing
LB: So you were too young to go to war
FW: Oh yeah, yeah. But they were still calling them up when I left school and for a few years afterthat but I just missed out by one year of being in in the training. They well it was after the war whenever they the diggers returned you know there was a big welcome and big march in the streets and all that sort of thing it was just shall I say it was just enormous Anzac Dayyou know just that’s about the best way it’s just like a huge arms Anzac dayin Maleny of the returning and mothers and Fathers are wou know welcome back their sons and wives welcome back their husbands and kids welcome back their fathers and all that sort of thing there was just it was just a tremendous big day
LB: And what was Maleny like during the War
FW: Well it was just a little country town but a hundred and twenty people
LB: But a lot of people would have been affected by having realtives at the war and small town. Was it
FW: Well, you know,
LB: Closer community I mean
FW: Well you see
LB: In a close knit community you would’ve discussed it a lot
FW Yeah yeah yeah
FW: Yeah with everything going tooyou know you had Red Cross and there was women knitting for the soldiersdoing this and doing that and sending them parcels and you know it was just enormous war time effort and the women were doing most of the farm works and all that sort of thing and I think one boy was allowed to stop home and work a farm or one husband or something like that and it was you know everybody helped one another it was just a community and it was the same thing whenever the red cross wanted something it was a community thing and and that’s how it all worked
LB: And did any of your brothers go to war
FW: Yeah, I had two brothers went ot war and they, they never, they never actually got out of Australia they were ready to go and of course the Japs started to bomb Darwin and of course they were ehld here then and that’s as far as they got. See those … age come up to to war service you were you ought to automatically go in to the army the eldest brother was kept home cause of the farm. See he was the one boy of the familyand the oterh two had to go to warand I was too young
LB: And so there was rationing and everything
FW: Well food rationing petrol rationing everything was rationed. Your meat was rationed and nbread was rationed and everything that that yeah it was all rationed. You had a, you had coupons ticketsOnce you run out of tickets well that was the end of ityou couldn’t buy anymore so you had to look after them
LB: So ouy had to ……
FW: There was other people that didn’t could save a bit more than we could or and that you’d get a few tickets off them and swap tickets around or something like thatStill you had to produce your ticket for your for your food
LB: And how do you remember Maleny main streetwhenyou were growing up What was there
FW: In the main street?
LB: Yeah it was just a dirt road
FW: Yeah well there was a boggy street and well when I was when I went to school first but then you know they improved it and then the bitument they put a a strip of bitumen donw the centre and of course the sides wereback to dirt you see Then the of course they done the sides as you get days went on Dad got that done and it yeah After the War it was big enough for it because the war effort was over machinery came in this is when machinery really moved in and there was a lot of machinery a lot of American machinery it was up in the north there in New Guinea and that and there was sales galoreyou know they’d do it but taking it back to America. They didn’t want it so they sold it all out
LB: Well that was good that made a lot of things possible
FW: Yeah it made things
FW: It brought development quick and then of course the power came to Maleny then and once you’ve got electricity come
LB: That was after the war
FW: Yeah. Once, well it was coming before the war but then as soon as war came things stopped.
LB: And was there, was there a doctor in town?
FW: Oh yeah.
FW: Benn a doctor there
LB: And bank, a bank?
FW: Yeah, yeah, yeah. They had a bank The ESNA Bank was there and yes there was a doctor and the hospital. See when Mom first came there was no hospital. So what they done is they went round and collected. Now people didn’t have money. So what they done they’d give a potty calf and that was sold and they’d give this and give that and do this and do that and they built a little tiny little tiny private hospital. And it was only small but it served the purpose. Then after the war they got it made into a war memorial hospital. Now I’m talking about the 1918 war, I’m not talking about
LB: The First World War
FW: the second World War. That was made in into a War Memorial Hospital and by converting it into a War Memorial Hospital they were able to get a little bit of subsidy from the government. So they put a few more rooms on, and put a few more rooms on. And
LB: And slowly it grew as the town grew
FW: And it gradually grew. We had, we had doc, we had hospital doctor there see we only had the one doctor in Maleny. And when I was a kid we had Doctor ?Perry? was there for twenty five years. And he it grew and of course the town grew and everything else. Now in my young days when I was a kid going to school there was only one baker shop that was ?McLeans? and then it started off then another fellow started off.
LB: And who was the other fellow?
FW: And we had two baker shops
LB: Can you remember the other fellow’s name?
FW: Yeah Walkers. They started their baker shop up against McLean and of course people didn’t come into Maleny much those days. You were on the farm and you were busy on the farmeverything, whenever the, whenever it became developed to an extent we had cream trucks going, the cream truck would bring you out your groceries, would bring oyu out your meat, and bring you out your bread in the afternoon, with the empty cans, see. And people didn’t go to town very much. They might go in once a week, once a fortnight. Or at least once a month to pay their bills.
LB: You must have had a long association with the Butter Factory then?
FW: Oh yes, we’ve been we’ve had a long association with the Butter Facory. I can remember that’s the second Butter Factory in my lifetime.
LB: Right, yeah
FW: But there was one before that
LB: That’s right, it burnt down
FW: And course there’s no Butter Factory there today.
FW: See, it’s all been converted into milk and course there’s only the milk smell on the ?treated? in Maleny treatment in Caboolture. So, you know, times have changed. And of course the dairy farms a lot of those been sold up now and divert, conerted into house blocks and where, where there was one dairy farm you have fifty or eighty housesnow and
LB: And that’s changed Maleny itselfhasn’t it
FW: Oh yeah, yes, it’s a crying shame to see the way good land has gone under houses because alright we’ll get through alright in this generation but genereations to come where they gonna get their food fromwhere they gonna grow their food. Maleny’s soil there you can grow anything and where they gonna get their milk from seeit won’t be long til you see there’s very little milk produced in Maleny and you’ll have to ??
LB: That’s make a big change. It’s a problem that the future generations will have to have cause so much
FW: Well if the Council’s own fault and the governments own fault they should never have let good land like this go under housesIt’s the same in Brisbane, their those good vegetable growing places there should be kept as open spaceand kept producing foodbut no they’ve they’ve rated the poor beggars out out and it’s been all converted into house blocks
LB: Which are totally non-productive as far as
FW: Yeah well that’s it. It’s just, it’s, there’s plenty of land there’s thousands of acres of land all along the coast here they can build houses on and you don’t need productive land to build a house on
LB: You feel they should leave good land alone
FW: Leave good land alone to produce your food and not put it under brick and mortar
LB: And do you think it’s changed Maleny in other ways toolike the people who live there
FW: Well I mean to say Maleny when I was a kid going to school I mean in my early days I about a hundred and twenty people in the town I think the estimate now in the whole district is about eight thousand people. So you’ve got a, you’ve got a big area of people now The same with parking I can remember six motor cars would be the most cars you’d ever see in Maleny And today you’ve gotta be six hundred
LB: And which areas of Maleny do you think should be left asif you could say okay we’ll leave this good land and the rest
FW: Well I think the Council has woke up now and I don’t think they’re going to let anymore farm, farmland being broken up but it’s too late. The nearly all the farms are broken up. There’s only two or three four or five farms left
LB: ??? productive dairy farms
FW: Yeah or half a dozen anyhow at the most
LB: And how many would there have been when you were a boy?
FW: Well I think in the old days I think there was around about three or four hundred dairy farms in the whole of the district that would be Conondale and Baroon Pocket and Buurubin and all the area round the whole plateau.
LB: That’s a big drop isn’t it?
FW: Yeah, yeah well you see Baroon Pocket there then wiped out a whole lot of farms the yput the dam in
LB: That was good farming country was it
FW: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And all these projects, you know. And that’s just how it’s gone. And nothing you can do about it I think the ray, the council was and the valuator general too got in there and valued it up and pushed some fellas off it because you know it made it a big rate bill for them and and developers came along and offered them big money and they said oh well I’m at the retiring age I might as well sell out and get out
LB: That’s right, so they had the money in their hand but the land sopped to produce
FW: Yeah, yeah. And the of course they chopped it upand sold out the blocks and people from everywhere comes and they It’s such a, it’s such a beautiful area it’s such as pleasant climate and everything that everybody come there once stopped there and lived there. And that’s been the story
LB: And you’ll be there til the day you die
FW: Yeah yeah
LB: Do you think
FW: I’ve been offered enormous amounts of money for my properties and there was one fella the agents have been always on me but I said Nope I’m not selling out I said I’ll stop here til I take me way on the pond
LB: And you your work it as a dairy farm as long as oyu possibly can.
LB: You’ll work it as a dairy farm
FW: Yeeah yeah we’ve still got our three dairies going and out at burrubin I got a big dairy out there we’ve got about a hundred, a hundred and twenty cows. And we’ve two hundred and twenty acres under beef. Beautiful property out there And I’ve been offered three million for it but I what’s the good of money? What’s the, what are you gonna do with money?
LB: Spend it that’s about all you can do with it. That’s a lot to spend
FW: …..take it off ya
FW: So Mountain View Road there well I’ve been always ?commented? to sell sell sell but nuh. It’s my home and I’ve worked hard to keep it all together and we bought in two other farms for me brothers estates and that you know and it’s been a big battle in life but you know it’s home
LB: And you’re the last of your family
FW: That’s right
LB: .Your children will carry on
FW: .Of my generation
LB: Of your generation right. YeahWell that’s good. Would you ever entertain the idea of doing what the Thynne family did? Do you think or would your family will keep working it
FW: Well I don’t know I spose when I’m dead and gone they’ll be they’ll probably sell it off. I wouldn’t know what happens I my dad always said well what happens to the farm when I’m dead and gone might hurt my eyesight
FW: So there it is it might hurt my eyesight
LB: Well the main difference too is of course that your is worked land I meanits land that’s productive
FW: Well its be the
FW: What’s this?
LB: Where as the Thynne’s land wasn’t worked property
FW: No, No
LB: and it wasn’t so it wasn’t a productive one. And do you remember when the last Mrs Thynne, Miss Thynnegave the extra five or six acres
FW: I don’t think she actually geve it
FW: What happens is that one of her nephews bought one property off her you see which bordered Mary Cairncross Park. And he got quite sick and he felt that he’s gonna die or something die off something like that and andyhow he decided to sell out. So he sold it he actually sold it out before the old lady died I think. Before the last old lady died And it ended up getting into deveopers hands Well of course they sub-dividedyou know Once there is a sub-divisionthe Councilcalims so much park land off them. And that’s where it was added onnear the scrub there they they had to give so much to them and that was added on there
LB: Oh that’s how that happened
FW: Mmm, mmm, mm
LB: But that would still be theoretically controlled the same way as the original
FW: Well I’d presume so I spose if if the Council wanted to build wanted different I spose they could claim that bak off the off that. But it is not building soite land it is not well it just suits the scrub
LB: I’ve seen a photo of the last Miss Thynnewhen there was a ceremony wher the Governor of Queensland came up Henry Abel Smith He cam up and they actually had a presentation in the sixties. Do you remember that event
FW: Oh yes there’s then thers been photographs of her with the Glasshous Mountain behind her
LB: That’s right yesthat’s what I’m thinking of
FW: And that that No well of course you know they were old ladies and it was all right for Dad to go and visit them because he was similar age you see Bu for us kids to well you’d be the time of day and respect them and all that sort of thing but as far as knowing much about them or having anything to do with them well we never didyou see and
LB: It was Ted that you had much to do with
FW: Well Ted’s boys were the same age as my brothers you see and of course they went to school together and they Ted would come over and spend the day with Dad and they would they had lots of things in common
LB: Right right
FW: But of course I never had much apart from him taking us taking the family of us to the exhibition. You see half of us would go one day and say on a Mondaythe exhibtionand then the other half would go probably Thursday or Friday of the week And well we used to respect him as Mr thynneand that’s that’s about all
LB: So if you had, if you were able to say which way you wanted to see Maleny go in the future Would you
LB: would you say
FW: Maleny’s had it as far as I’m concerned because it’s it’s gone
LB: The Maleny you know has gone now
FW: Has gone yes yeah yeah
FW: There’s aonly a few farms left and I feel their just gonna be open spaces that’s all. What’s gonna happen after that I would not know
LB: No, as you say that’ll be up to your, your
FW: Well that’s it
FW: That’s it who knows somebody’ll come along some primer’ll come along and offer them big price for it and they’ll sell it out probably and who knows I can’t I can’t predict anything
LB Well it’s hard to predict the future and the Coast has had a tremendous growth tooso some of that is now
FW: Well they it’s going to, it’s gonna
LB: towards Maleny
FW: You see what is it a thousand a month coming in from over the border well you know how longs that gonna keep keep going
LB: That’s righ
FW: And No we can’t just predict what’s gonna take place
LB: We’ll just have to wait and see
FW: Yeah well you’ll see a lot more than I will
LB: Okay well thanks very much for your time this morning.