Interview with: Alfred Johnson
Date of interview: 1 April 1987
Interviewer: Amanda Wilson
Transcriber: Felicity Napper
Alfred moved to Caloundra in 1957 at the beginning of the era of development for the coastal strip. He was the Chauffeur to Lady Wilson, of Currimundi House, Caloundra, and later was involved in the development of the Caloundra and Kawana Waters areas, through his employment field.
Image: Currimundi House, seaside residence for the Governor of Queensland, Sir Leslie Orme Wilson, Dicky Beach, ca 1940.
Images and documents about Alfred L. Johnson in the Sunshine Coast Libraries catalogue.
Migration to Australia
AW Well, Mr. Johnson, how did you come about coming to Australia? Well, in 1957 I was a semi-trailer driver for a big timber importer in the West of England. I happened to come back late one night from Bristol, home very late and my dear wife, who’s now passed on, said to me, “How would you like to go to Australia?” I said, “I’ll be in that.” She said, “I’m not joking,” I said “I’m not joking, I’ve had my share of icy roads and semi trailers. I said, ”What’s the score?”
”Well” she said, “Mrs Richards, in the village, who lives at Manor House there, her mother’s over here, Lady Wilson, for a holiday and she’s going back. She’s very worried abut someone to look after her, and she wants to know if we would go over to Australia, to Queensland, and more or less look after Lady Wilson. I would be the chauffeur, gardener, cum-handyman and Mum would be the cook and companion and look after the big house whatever. And they ‘d also built a little bungalow there for our needs. So eventually we did, much to my surprise. My dear wife being a family girl, I was very much surprised. Myself, being a rolling stone ever since I left Scotland in 1939, the call up of the war. So we arrived here in 1957 on the M.S. Fairseaafter a five weeks voyage. We arrived at Caloundra, at Currimundi House.
Working for Lady Wilson, at Currimundi House in the 1950’s
AW So, Lady Wilson, you had met her in England and made all the arrangements and agreed to the terms of employment.
Yes, and we arrived at Currimundi House. We settled in there and led a very quiet sort of a life because in 1957, Caloundra wasn’t very greatlydeveloped, compared to what it is today. The main road leading up to Caloundra was dirt up the hill then, even down Arthur Street, the steep side was all dirt, terrible hazard when it was wet weather, in a big wet. It was very lonely in one sense for my family because on weekendsor in holiday times you’d get the people up from Brisbane to have their pleasure and whenthey go away on Sunday night all of a sudden the whole place would be in darkness, all the lights would go out.
AW So, Caloundra became a ghost town?
It became a ghost town again as soon as the holidays went, or the weekends went. It would come alive again on weekend and holiday times, very much so. But, unfortunately in 1959 Lady Wilson passed on through cancer and we decided if I could get a job for a good while, we’d give it a month or six weeks or whatever. If I couldn’t, we’d go back to England where I could re-continue my services in my old job.Fortunately, one chap here said there was a vacancy down at Tesch’s Brothers Timber and Hardware; which was my old format in England (on a much larger scale of course.) I went down there for an interview, and the chap said it was very hard work etc. etc. I said, “Ithink I’ll manage.” So I really had ten years of good harmony with Tesch Brothers, enjoyed the work, started just at the bottom rung, driving the truck, then in charge of the timber yards. Then I went up into the shop and then on rep outside for the builders and that and made many contacts in the building game. That was where we came into contact with Kawana Waters.
AW Before we go on any further, would you mind if I just went back to the early days of Caloundra. When you first came to Caloundra, can you remember how many shops there were?
Well, the main shop in the town wasTytherleigh’s. That’s where the big empty shop is now, used to be the Four Square, it’s empty now. Big shop there.
Just up from Sue’s.
AW Up on the top of Bulcock Street?
No, down the street a bit, come down just past Hunter’s men’s wear.
AW Oh yes, I know.
A big empty shop there now, that was Tytherleigh’s, the biggest shop in town. I’ve been told that the town should have been over at Albert Street because it’s a chain wide, which made a bit of sense: where the Hotel Francis was. But John Tytherleigh decided in his wisdom, to build the shop on Bulcock Street, Caloundra. It was a brick one and that was the start of Bulcock Street.
AW So, it was really a shop owner who decided where Caloundra would be?
More or less, he built this big brick place there and then one or two others started.
AW Was John Tytherleigh still alive when you first moved to Caloundra?
No, his son Ted, who now lives at Mooloolah.
AW He ran the shop?
He ran the shop and his brother Alf ran the shop at Maleny and one at Landsborough, Tytherleigh’s. Ted’s retired now but he’s still living over at Mooloolah.
AW What sort of goods did Tytherleigh’s store sell?
Oh, general, I think a bit of everything, in sports goods, electric and clothes as well.
AW So, you would go there to buy, if you wanted a new pair of trousers, you’d go to Tytherleigh’s?
I think so. And there was a bloke across the road from Bagley’s now, he was called “Phil Johns”, in fact it’s only about twelve months ago he altered the name to “Bagley’s Family” store. Phil Johns was one of the old original men’s clothing stores. That’s up from Henzell’s.
AW He was in the same location?
Yes, he was in the same location. Liekefett’s “Black and White” fruit market, he had a little wooden shop, all wooden, weatherboard, laid back a bit from John Tytherleigh’s. He was the main vegetable and fruit place in Caloundra.
AW Do you know where he got his fruit supply from?
At the time, no. I think it would be from the Brisbane Market. Ray Liekefett’s retired now, he lives down Leeding Terrace. His father who is well into his ninety’s know; dear old chap; would know much, much more about it.
AW So he ran Liekefett’s? What’s his father’s name, do you know?
AW So, Harry was the original owner.
Harry was principal, main principal and then Ray took over.
AW Did you have a butcher?
Yes, I think the original butcher when I came here was called Eric Pearn. His son-in-law runs the same shop now, below the Newsagent. Kevin Holst, he is Eric’s son-in-law, he runs the shop. Eric Pearn was the butcher then. Dr. Doug Wilson was the only Doctor in the town, who finished up many years and very well liked,and he went on to be Medical Officer for Queensland for many years in Brisbane. He’s since just retired in the last two years and lives in Alfred Street.
AW Caloundra basically had all the services, like baker, butcher, doctor, and chemist?
Oh yes, Barker’s Chemist was the chemist, (David Barker, the present day David Barker’s father, senior). His good lady, Mrs Barker, she’s still alive. She lives over at Little Mountain. David lives out there too. Bob Gray was one of the original electricians of the town. He is a son-in-law of the Barker’s, he lives out Little Mountain. And Graham Barker’s another son, He’s had a refrigeration business.
AW So, it sounds like a lot of the original business community families are still in the area. So, Caloundra was a very family oriented area.
Oh yes. Bill Dyke, down at what used to be called the Atlantic Service Station. Well, Bill Dyke had a little service station there, he was one of the originals. His son Ray works for him and his grandson works for him. The son and grandson went to school here. I think his son went to school with my daughter Barbara, and they joined the business and, Bill is still working in the same job.
AW Can you remember if Tom Maloney still ran “The Water-Hen” when you first came to Caloundra.
No, I think Tom Maloney was out of it and a fellow called Ron Baker.
AW So there was still water transport up the town?
Yes, Ron Baker went up and down and he supplied Tesch’s with a lot of building supplies from Brisbane.
AW So, it was easier for Tesch’s to get their timber sent via boat.
No, not timber. They had their own timber mill up at Witta, near Maleny.
AW What did they transport, nails and hardware?
Roof, roofing and all the accessories for building, must come from Brisbane.
AW So it was easier for them to get it sent by by boat up the Passage than by train to Landsborough and then by truck from Landsborough to Caloundra.
Well, they worked both. There was another haulier who used to do that, but they worked both. “Bannams” came into it afterwards, but we did work with Ron Baker quite a bit and he supplied a lot of fibro and flat sheets and roofing and what have you.
AW Do you remember, before you started at Tesch’s how most of the goods like your daily groceries were brought to Caloundra, would that have been by the boat through the channel?
No, that would probably come up by box van to Landsborough and then the transport fellow here would go out to Landsborough and off load it there and into a motorvan. Then eventually went direct to Brisbane after that.
AW So, Caloundra was still, in the late 50’s, very dependent on transport.
AW Did many people go to Brisbane in those days, was it a big deal to catch the train to Brisbane? For example, did you go to Brisbane often?
Not very often, but it was a real day out. And when you did go, you’d appreciate it when you did go but were glad to get back to the Coast to get a bit of fresh air because Brisbane was very hot then in those days. But it was good to look forward in those days to have a day off in Brisbane.
AW When you were working for Lady Wilson, did you find it hard to adjust going from being a Scots lorry driver in England to being a person who had a very important person in your charge?
Well, that much didn’t worry me. I got on very well with Lady Wilson. I didn’t muck around, we had a good understanding right from the word go. I believe in plain speaking and what have you. But it came in a sense, because I was used to being on the road for many, many years and I think all transport drivers once you give itup, you’d feel a bit anchored. You know after you’ve had the freedom of the highways, it’s a good life for a young man, but not so much for a married man. It’s a wonderful life for a young man, providing his good at his craft. But I felt a bit tied down and there was very limited bus service from Dickey Beach to the towns in those days.
AW Couldn’t you use the car?
Oh no, taboo. But it was very lonely and the old buses were real rattlers indeed.
AW So there was some sort of bus service?
Yes, maybe a couple a day.
AW And who ran that, the Council? Golden Beach Development, 1960’s
No, a bloke called George Watson. His garage was where Bill Morton is now, that was where George Watson’s bus depot was. They had few buses, a couple a day go to Golden Beach, but there wasn’t much down at Golden Beach,you didn’t go past Military Jetty, there was nothing down there.
AW No houses? You wouldn’t even go down there fishing?
Oh yes, you’d go fishing.
AW Was there a road down there or was it just a dirt track?
Just a bit of a road down there, there’s a bridgeover Lamerough Creek. But they more or less finished up at Military Jetty, we used to go down to Military Jetty and fish and Bells Creek which was just a track from there. Matter offact one old chap lived opposite the main Bus Stop where “Genisis” is on the corner, the gent’s place.
AW Do you remember the name of it?
No, I’m trying to think. And this old chap, Aub Sitz, a good friend of mine, he used to give us a bit of a hand at Tesch’s, in his spare time (very handy-man). And he said to me one day, I’m getting a house built down past the Mililtary Jetty”. I said, ”What ever for, there’s nothing there.” He said, “That’s what I want, I’m fed up with these young bikies driving up and down”. So eventually, he got this house built down there between the Military Jetty and Diamond Head. The only house there.
AW When was that? This was when you were still at Tesch’s so that would be in the early 60”s?
Yes, it would be or halfway in between. So eventually I said, “You’re mad”. But look at the place now? He was the first one, apart from a bloke called Rasmussen, a builder, he had one way out the back. But anyway that was the start of it, on the waterfront side as you go down the Esplanade.
AW So that’s when Golden Beach first started opening up?
Well, there was one, still there now, not quiteopposite the jetty. Just come down a bit, about twenty yards and go across, there’s a split level there. I remember when I was in the building supplies, I think it went on the market a few years after that for $15,000 and it sat there awaiting a buyer for along period, (From Military Jetty to Bell’s Creek development).
AW And that was a lot of money in those days?
The fellow that built it used to come up, like a lot of people down here, they’d come up weekends and do a bit. They’d do this for years till they finished. Well, this went on the market afterwards, and $15,000 today, it’s peanuts. And right on the waterfront.
AW Who owned all the land down at Golden Beach that these people were buying?
I think Henzell developed it. Actually I believe Roy, the original Roy Henzell, which is the present Roy’s grandfather, he was a very far sighted man, I think he was the original developer of Golden Beach.
AW He bought it for future development?
Well, he probably bought a bit at a time. But he developed way down at Diamond Head, you’ll find all the names, after Justin Street, Roy (Henzell) Street, Jerrybell Street, John Street, which is all part of the staff at the time. The names of the street, which I do think they could have done a bit better, really. There are some beautiful aboriginal names, but that’s beside the point. But one little thing stuck in my mind while I was working with Tesch’s. I was delivering some stock down at Golden Beach and there was a house there, just your average house, and I said to the fellow there, ‘That’s a very, very peculiar name you’ve got on your house (beautiful sign up) I said “Is it aboriginal?” He said “No” It was called ODTAA I said, “What the devil does it mean?” “Well,” He said, “Lad, I’ve been coming up here for about ten or eleven years now.” And he said, “That means, one damn thing after another.” I said, “Oh, that’s very, very original – ODTAA”
AW Is that house still there?
I think it’s still there.
AW And that was in the late ’ 60’s?
Yes, or early ‘60’s. ODTAA, one damn thing after another. I think it’s very original and it’s always stuck in my mind, that one.
AW That would have been very interesting.
But there was no development much there at all.A lot of the houses were home built, you know, weekend they’d come up and would do a bit.
AW When you first came to Australia, when you were first in the services of Lady Wilson, can you remember what your first wages were?
AW I was just trying to get some sort of gauge of the value of things in the early days.
Probably be a package deal, with the both of us.
AW Right, because your wife was working as well, what was she doing?
She was everything, she was the cook, she was the housekeeper, she was more or less a bit of a companion in a lot of ways.
AW Were there many very interesting VIP’s?
Yes, we had some very charming people. We had Sir Henry Abel Smith, the Governor, he was Governor of Queensland the time and Lady May, who is the daughter of Princess May, who was a grand-daughter of Queen Victoria. She was well into her eighties then, a way back then. They were very nice people, very charming people.
AW How do you think the town’s people, like Caloundraites reacted to having all these distinguished people drifting in and out of Caloundra?
I think, Sir Leslie was very well loved by the people, he was a wonderful Governor, and a very well loved Governor; one of the finest, I think. It was always called the “Governor’s House”, as well as “Currimundi House”. There’s an old story going around which I think is quite true. He was down fishing off the rocks, which he used tousually do in his old baggy clothes, and this chap here was fishing and didn’t know him from a bar of soap. The young fellow was reefing out plenty of tailors and the old chap turned round and says, “Have a cup of tea” “I’m alright, no thank you” “Go on, have a cup of bloody tea, plenty here” “No, thank you very much.” He never reminded him who he was.
AW So, the young person had given him a couple of fish?
He gave the Governor a couple of fish, a couple of tailor. He didn’t know who he was because the old fellow was in mufti.
AW So, Lady Wilson must have told you this story?
Yes, which they appreciated very much, a couple of nice fish.
AW Don you know the story of the Wishing Tree? I understand Lady Wilson had something to do with some Wishing Tree?
No, I can’t recollect that one.
AW How about entertaining? Did you have anyspecial protocol or something when Lady Wilson was entertaining?
No, shed didn’t entertain a great deal.
AW So, your job was just mainly driving her around.
And looking after the grounds, doing a bit ofmaintenance on the property and whatever. More or less just look after the property. She’d go to Brisbane quite periodically.
AW So, you went to Brisbane then. But you were working, so you weren’t really allowed to do any shopping?
Oh, yes, she wasn’t too bad that way. My wifewould go down with me and we’d meet, say, at five o’clock. She would maybe, go to a doctor or to see some friends of hers. She knew people in high places. And we would meet at so and so and I’d go round to Lennons at five o’clock and pick her up. Lennons used to be in George Street. So it was quite a nice day for both of us.
Tesch Brothers Timber and Hardware Business
AW Moving on, you went to work for Tesch’s. Now who was running Tesch’s at the time?
Well, the two principals were Norm and Arthur Tesch, two brothers.
AW Who was the older?
I’m not sure. I think it would be Norm. Now, they ran a mill up at Witta, which more or less cones under the environs of Maleny, and they used to truck all the timber down to the Caloundra yard, a daily run; they supplied all our stock. Arthur’s still alive, Norm’s passed on. He lives down at Maloja Avenue. He was telling me he supplied all the timber for Currimundi House from their mill. And they also supplied all the timber used to build an enormous RSL Hall on the square down at Kings Beach. It was called the “Glideway Hall”. That’s where anything that was anything for dancing, or socials were held in town. They sold the property a way back.
AW Is that still there?
AW It’s been pulled down?
Well, it was where the “Shearwater Motel” isnow. That was where the Glideway RSL Hall used to be. Very, very rich property if they’d sold at the right time but I think it was before the boom came.
AW Do you know when Currimundi House was built?
It would be the very early thirties because I think the Governor took over in ’34. But I can find that out from Arthur Tesch, he knows it exactly.
AW So, Tesch’s supplied the timber for building Currimundi House. So, in your role, working at Tesch’s you would have seen a lot of building of new houses, new young families coming in. When would you say, in that ten years that you worked for Tesch’s, was the busiest building period?
Well, I think you would have to say, coming up to the later ‘60’s, there was a very limited amount of builders then. I knew every builder in the town, which wasn’t hard to do.
AW Like, how many were there?
As many as six or eight, maybe ten at the very most.
AW And would they be working all the time?
AW But, did they build houses a little bit slower in those days?
Well, they probably got more, faster methods now, and they’ve got pre-fabricated frames also. They re using a lot of pine now which isa lot faster to work than hard wood.
Growth of Caloundra in the 1970’s
AW No, I was just trying to get some sort of gauge of how many houses were going up in a year because modern houses usually take anything from four to six weeks to build these days. So, if the builders, if these six to eightbuilders were working all the time that means there’s a lot of houses that were being built on the coast, so what I’m trying to ascertain is how many people, like if there was any particular time between 1960 and 1970 that was a boom time for Caloundra, because you know of the Caloundra area.
Oh yes, we were kept pretty busy all the time.
AW So, you’d say that the whole ten years were very busy. And were there people moving from Brisbane?
Yes, it would be mainly Brisbane, there wasn’t so much talk about the “South” in those days.
AW And were they retired people or young people, young families?
No., there weren’t so many young ones, not unless they came up here and got work.
AW More of a retired, middle age group of people.
Actually to be quite blunt, Caloundra then, was a place to come to retire or to die.
AW So, it was really an aged population here?
That is right. That’s what you’d come to Caloundra for.
AW How did you feel, being a young person in Caloundra?
Oh, my work kept me flat out.
Opening of the Hotel Perle 1959
AW What did all the other young people do?
Well, that’s a good question. There was no TV, and usually if you went to a party. you’d have a singsong and all the rest of it. I think it was wonderful at times, them that could sing or whatever, but you had to make your own entertainment. You might get a play come up at the schools and all the rest of it, take the children and all the rest of it, but you’d just have to make your own entertainment. Oh, by the way, when I came here, the Hotel was more or less just opening up.
AW Hotel Caloundra?
The Hotel Perle had just opened up.
AW That was in 1959 or 1957.
That was in 1957. It just more or less opened, a chap called Didgivani was the builder, he was Italian.
AW Was he local?
No, I think he’s living at Redcliffenow, if he’s still alive. But I was told that they designed the Perle from a hotel in Swizerland. It was the “in’ place then.
AW So, the architect who designed hotel Perle came from Switzerland?
No, the design; it was rumoured that the design came from a hotel in Switzerland, which was quite attractive in it’s own right. It maybe “oldhat” now but thirty years ago it was the “in” place. I think a chap called “Slattery” was the first manager. Well, his daughter Mary married Desi Dwyer. I think her father was the first manager of the Perle Hotel, then we came to the Caloundra Hotel, which was originally Strathallen Guest House.
Caloundra Guest Houses
AW Can you remember when it was Strathallen Guest House?
Well, it must have been just about the year before we came, ’56 they finished renovation of the pub. So, it wouldn’t be long before that.
AW Was the Hotel Francis still running this time?
No, not in my time. The licence had gone.
AW So, Caloundra must have been a big tourist destination if there was a new hotel, the Hotel Perle. Strathallen had been changed toa hotel also. Was Grand Central still there?
Yes, that was still there, operating.
AW Any other big boarding houses at the time?
Yes, Caloundra House was on the site where Manchester Unity is now.
AW That’s down the end of Bulcock Beach?
I just can’t recollect the lady’s name who owned it, but that was Caloundra Boarding House.
There was King’s Boarding House and as I said before, that pub was the Strathallen.
AW So, from business point of view did most of the businesses in Caloundra depend on the tourist dollar to survive?
Oh yes, But I think maybe Caloundra got the first chance, being the nearest to Brisbane meant something in those days; nearest to Brisbane, nearer than Maroochydore and nearer than Noosa, which was just a hamlet, more or less a quiet place then. And Alexandra Headlands, of course they all roll into one.
Road access to Caloundra
AW So, Caloundra was the original holiday resort?
Well, I think it had more pull then because it was easier, quicker access and what have you. And there was no cut through to Currimundi, or Kawana, there was no bridge there then.
AW So, you came to Caloundra and that was it, you couldn’t go any further, if you wanted to go north, you had to go and catch a boat.
You had to come out to the Bruce Highway, and go up the road and get to Maroochydore that way.
AW Was the Bruce Highway there in 1960 or was that the old Gympie Road?
No, it was the Bruce Highway, because then, you could come around the Glasshouse Mountains. Before that, you had to come up through Petrie, Caboolture.
AW The old Gympie Road?
That was the road when we came here becausewhen you came up before, you connect onto the Bruce Highway, the old road, no the new one. I particularly noticed the first time I came up here, the pine forests on the right, the other side ofthe railway, was about four feet high. After thirty years they are ready for cutting.
AW Right, so you can remember when they were planting all those.
Well, they were only three or four feet high then. They hadn’t been planted many years. It’s now thirty years.
AW The road from the Bruce Highway turnoff to Caloundra, did it go in a very similar place to where it is today, going through Little Mountain?
Yes, that is still the original road.
AW And was that bitumened?
Yes, in my time, but narrow bit strip.
AW So, it was only major arterial roads in the Caloundra area that were bitumened when you first came here? When did they start upgrading the road service?
I could get you the facts because on eof the contractors, a haulage contractor, drayed a lot of the metal for the roads, he has passed on, but his sister is still alive here.
AW Can you remember if you were working for Lady Wilson when they started upgrading all the roads, or whether you were working forTesch’s?
AW So, it would be after 1950?
In the ‘60’s.
AW So, the ‘60’s sound like it was a boom time for Caloundra.
Yes, starting to move and they put up that new water tower up there. Of course I came in after the war came in. There was nothing there then.The old lighthouse was there in my time, which is down at the yacht club now.
AW That was moved later. I was going to ask you, were there any hang-ons or leftovers from the war? For instance, we’ve got Battery Hill Estate and Military Jetty, Radar Towers and barbed wire?
No, I can’t recollect that. I picked up a twenty five pound shell, they were fragments in my block of land I’ve got up at Cooinda. I wish you’d get that into perspective, there were no bombs up there, they were all shells, not bombs from planes. It wasn’t a bombing range, it was an artillery range. While I was working on the Kawana project, there was an enormous lot of stuff turned up. Shells and small arms ammo.
AW What, they used to just practice on the coastal stretch?
Yes, it was an artillery range. Well, it was justwild country then. In a national emergency, you had to get on with it.
AW So, why did you leave Tesch’s?
Just a little bit of differences at the time.
AW So, what did you do when you left Tesch’s employment?
Development of Turner & Kawana Estates 1970’s
I had a bit of a holiday, then I think I did a little bit of work for a fellow who’s developing an estate up in Turner Estate, that’s down below the water tower. That was just a wild country then, and that gave me my first taste of earth moving.
AW When you say wild country, whatsort of scrub did it have in it?
Oh, just stunted trees all bent over from the prevailing winds and very dense.
AW Any roads?
No, we developed the roads on this Turner Estate, private Estate. They bought it and we developed it.
AW Do you know who the developer was?
Ross (an Irish name), but I was only there for a short while then I had a bit of work with Kawana Estates. We were constructing the revetment walls at Mooloolaba Waters. I wasn’t working for the contractor at the time, I was doing the work for Kawana Estates, pouring concrete, doing the revetment walls around the canals.
AW What do you call them?
Revetment walls. They hold the soil back from the tidal wash. Concrete revetment walls go down deep, about, say four feet up. Stabilises the banks of the canals.
AW And you were sub-contracting then or were you working for Kawana Estates?
No, I was just working for Kawana Estates. Then I went from there to a contractor proper who was Keith Lawrie at the time.
AW And he was the earth moving contractor.
He was the man who developed right from the word go, contracting to Kawana Estate. But prior to that, “Alfred Grant” (a developer) started developing Point Cartwright.
AW He started the development.
He started the actual development in whatever transpired, I don’t know.
AW Can you remember when that was?
I would say 1960
AW So before 1960, there was nothing on Point Cartwright?
No, nothing, zero.
AW So, Mooloolaba Harbour didn’t exist?
No, Alfred Grant was the first, he was number one for the development of Kawana as we
know it now.
AW Was there a road, you were saying that the bridge over Currumundi wasn’t there?
AW When did that get built?
Well, I think that when Kawana Estates took over, the council agreed I thin, that if they put in a road, no I don’t think it was the council, the State Lands Department, if they put in the bridges they would get land or something like that.
AW I read in the newspaper the other day, that was 1st July, 1960, that the developers built the roads in exchange for the land, so thatwas a land swap with whom, the State Government?
AW Because that would be Crown Land.
Yes, it would have to go through the Lands Department, the Council wouldn’t have the authority to do that.
AW So, that developer, that would have been Kawana Estate.
Which is Network Finance. They own Kawana Estate. The parent company.
For Alfred Grant to get that land at Point Cartwright, he would have bought that from the Lands Administration Council too because that would have been Crown Land.
I don’t know what terms he had.
AW So they exchanged the land for the building of the bridges, now I understand you built one of the bridges, or you helped build one of the bridges.
No, that was another one further on, before you come to the Mooloolaba bowls club. The other one was private contractors.They probably private contracted to Kawana Estates because they had a bridge that had to come in.
AW Right, so that was part of the deal.
That was the link, Nicklin Highway.
AW Do you have any idea of what sort of area of land we are looking at that they swapped for all these bridges? Was that the whole of Kawana Estates area, the Kawana Waters Island Development as they called it?
Well, it would be to a point. I think it would be a section at a time and maybe release more as they go on. I hadn’t got access to all that knowledge, how much it actually was, but I’ve noticed over the period of time that when they were getting neat the end of their time they applied for more land and they got more land. I don’t know what the score is.
AW So, there would have been a lot of workers working on that project?
Yes, a good thing.
AW So, it was a good thing for Caloundra?
For the economy.
AW Were they mainly Caloundra people?
Caloundra, Maroochydore and I think Keith Lawrie did a good thing in that sense because it was quite a big wage bill and all that money would go into the community, which was good. Maroochydore area and Kawana.
AW So, to get to the Kawana area, could you drive from Caloundra to Kawana, this is in 1969, 1970?
Oh yes, it was opened then.
AW So, you weren’t actually involved in the earth moving works and stuff like that until after Kawana Estate had been well under way.
AW Can you remember much, what the public response was at the time when they firstvstarted developing Kawana?
Well, I think they didn’t seem to grasp it ina sense because, one of the chaps who worked with me at Tesch’s Bros. I always remember when he went down to Tasmania for a holiday. He indeed came back, this was before we had actually started up here, and I said, “How did your holiday go Tom?” He says, “Wonderful” but he says, you should see the signs down there, big palm trees, beautiful girls and beautiful Kawana Island in Queensland”. I said, “What are you talking about?” This was advertised down in Tasmania, and we hadn’t even started.
AW And you didn’t even know it was on?
Well, we knew it was on but all my firm had done at the time was just take some timber up to the fork at Currimundi and dump the timber. I said, “What for?” He said, “A builder is going to put a sign up.” I said, “What’s this?” and he said, “I don’t know.” I asked, “Oh, some Kawana Island. I’m just putting it up, that’s all I know.” And all these very luscious Tahitian style
adverts hadn’t even been built.
AW That’s interesting. So, that would have been after 1960, when you were at Tesch’s.
While I was at Tesch’s. That would have been in the sixties, very early sixties.
AW So, they did all their marketing down south. Marketing our Sunshine Beaches.
That was the start of it.
AW Right. I was looking at a map, an earlymap that yo gave me of what I understand is Kawana Estates PL Ltd. Development plan, when they first started doing the canals estate.
Mooloolaba Waters, that would be the start of it.
AW So, when they first started the plan to develop this area, that would have been in the
No, not Mooloolaba Waters, that would have been done in the ‘70’s. The only early start wasby Alfred Grant, as they were put up at Point Cartwright.
AW The first canals estate?
No, there were no canals at Point Cartwright, that was just getting roads made, developing roads and building blocks. There wasn’t a great deal of that done before Grant packed it in.
AW What about Paringa Canal and Barralong.
Yes, well they came after the Mooloolaba Waters. They started Mooloolaba Waters and then they worked back.
AW So, whereabouts is Mooloolaba Waters?
Well, it’s between two bridges, as you go overthe first one, the people who owned the fish and chip shop used to be called McKenzie and we all used to refer to it as McKenzie’s.That is the division between Maroochy Shire and Landsborough Shire. Now you go over this bridge and half a mile or three quarter of a mile up the road again is another bridge, to let water through into this other Estate Canals Seaview, whatever it’s called. In between there, you turn in right and that’s Mooloolaba Waters Estate, that’s where the big Hammerhead lies. Mooloolabah Waters Canal Development
AW So, Mooloolaba Waters was the first development.
On that grand scale for canals and that was the gem in the crown.
AW And who was the developer, who was the person who put all the plans o the Council? Was that Kawana Waters Estate?
Kawana Waters, they are still working withthem: “Hillhouse Engineers and Cardno and Davies” they are still under contract.
AW Mundoora Broadwater and Baronga Broadwater were the first canals estate. So you’revsaving that, that was the jewel in their crown. Now why’s that?
Well, it’s such a magnificent position in a lot of ways, you’ve got your harbour just up there; you’re into the river right away; you’re not far from the river mouth into the ocean and also they are very exclusive homes, and very expensive homes.
AW Well in that area, it looks to me like it would have all been mangrove swamp and flats. So, how did you go about creating a prestigious development out of swamps?
You’ve got to cut down. You clear your mangroves.
AW So, how did you do that?
You would have to build up banks to keep the water out. You’d dog down into a big basion to get rid of all the slop and mush and everything.
AW So, in effect you blocked off the Mooloolah River?
You had to because you were going to put a canal on this great hole that was gone.
AW So what happened at high tide?
We allowed for that.
AW So the banks were really high, were they?
Well, you had to work there all the time in this great basin, that was going to be the set-up.
AW Did you use rock walls to make up like a temporary dam wall or did you just push the dirt that was existing dirt thatthe mangroves were growing on?
You have to build up here, in the middle there and build up your wings here and build this up here and leave this cavity in here which is going to be water.
AW So, the basic shape I’ve heard you call it “the hammerhead”.
Yes, there’s your “Hammerhead”. These are very exclusive blocks, and very expensive. I still think it is one of the finest places, if you were wealthy enough to live there.
AW Would you like to live there?
Well, yes and no. But it depends if I wanted to live there, but I wouldn’t object to it. It’s a very nice area.
Conservation and mangroves
AW So, isn’t there some sort of problem; thisis an assumption of mine, like, when yo reclaim land, that would have been tidal so you would have had shifting sands and then you got the whole water mangrove ecology of the crabs, the fishermen, the fishing, all that sort of stuff. Wouldn’t this sort of development displace the natural life-chain?
Well, it would. There’s no doubt about that, it must affect it to a certain degree, there again, they probably would call it progress.
AW Did the fishermen get upset about this development in the beginning?
Not to my knowledge, they didn’t seem to express an outcry. Oh, I suppose there probably would have been a certain amount of outcry by the dedicated conservationists.
AW Just the conservationists, not the fisher people?
I don’t think the fisher people did or there may have been one or two understand the life cycle. And mangroves is a very touch subject now because it reclaims land.
AW Do you think it was a good development?
Well, if you see it now, it’s harmonizing in well.The only thing is, I wouldn’t like to see the same thing happen across our water here in Bribie. I wouldn’t like to see a township pop up there because I think part of the charm of Caloundra is looking across the wild wilderness of Bribie. Take that away, and you’ve taken your natural attraction away.
AW I’ve heard other old timers say that Bribie shouldn’t be touched because Bribie’s what stops the surf hitting Golden Beach.
It is. That’s your buffer zone, and over and above that. To my mind, if you’re up at the Lighthouse and you look across at Bribie, it looks gorgeous and beautiful because nature is wild. I mean you can see highrise anywhere in the world.
AW Well, before you went in and started work on the Mooloolaba Waters Canal Development, can you remember what it was likebefore there was anything, when it was just mangroves.Like you worked from the very beginning. It was just mangroves.
AW Nothing else, just mangroves?
In fact, if you come up from Kawana road back to Caloundra, on the left hand side I Jessica Boulevard, now that’s a very expensive area because it’s underground power there. Underground power costs much more money than poles and overhead wires, but it’s much more attractive and work was more expensive.That area there was just one great swamp,
like the trees there, you could see this in the trees at night and shags there and the trees are all dead because of the drying winds and the salt. That was one great swamp.
AW I don’t understand, like you were saying theywere putting the power underground, if it was a swamp, they would they would have to build the ground up. Isn’t there a problem of water getting into the power and all the services there?
Yes. Well, what they do is, if you put a road in there, you box a road out. You might go down normally eighteen inches. If you get into slop you may have to dig down, even up to ten feet to get all the slop out. You put hard coffee rock. Coffee rock’s black because it’s related to sandstone.
AW So, all this has built up rocks underneath it. Probably coffee rocks, and then solid rocks on top, aggregate to give stability.
AW Do you know if there was an impact studyto ascertain the erosions from wave action.
Well, further on, before you come to the McKenzie Bridge, there is a garage there on the opposite, more or less the fellow who sells cars: well, round the back, there’s another big estate down there.
AW What’s that called?
I think that’s called Mountain View, or something.
AW Probably it would be because it’s Mountain Creek Road there.
Well, Thiess took over from a contractor there called “Barkas” and Thiess took over after Lawrie had sold out to Thiess. Thiess Bros. took over and we went down there. I had finished up wit my job. I went on an eight wheel tip-truck, eight wheeler twenty tonne tip truck. I was fetching down spauls, because spauls are rocks about this size, two inches to four inches which they brought down from a Bli Bli quarry, down to this estate for the bends in the canal. They were built round there because when the tidalsurge comes round, if there was just dirt there they’d eat away the banks and these spauls were consolidated into the corners.
AW So, it’s all been taken into consideration?
They all got revetment walls and everything there.
AW Can you remember how much, say a prestigious block cost, on a Carwoola Crescent? Can you remember roughly how much they wereasking for a block on the river side of that when they first finished the development?
In my time?
Oh, I think they would be cheap by today’s standards, fifteen thousand, which was a hell of a lot of money in those days. But definitely the one,more or less further on to that in Jessica Boulevard, that was a real big sum.
AW You were telling me it was not unusual for you to be up to your waist in mud.
Oh Yes. That was when you struck a big wet.
AW What do you mean? Wet weather.
Wet season. We don’t get it so much now. You get a wet season and you know you would be in trouble.
AW So, you worked through summer as well.
Oh yes. Now the estate behind Currimundi shopping centre; we were doing that when we hit the big wet and we were really into the slops then. They had to cut well down into the road, box down into that road to get the slop out and put in the coffee rocks. That was a real wet one; who the hell would live there? But, it’s turned into a beautiful estate now.
AW So, it’s just the drainage?
It’s the drainage, wonderful drainage.
AW What sort of drainage did they put in these estate areas?
Well, you start from twelve inches, I’m talking imperial, twelve inch concrete pipes.
AW From the house?
No. not from the house, from the main drainage which is on your road system; twelve inches up to seventy two inches, which is six feet.
AW And where would these big six foot pipes be?
Well, they’d be near the road. They’d lead to a manhole and out to the river. It took your main bulk. I’m not quite sure if they are here but the old systems did. There’s your main line, right? Now if you got a big paddock, your herringbone, bring your pipes from there and then they’d come into the big main, flush it all out, and make a big gulley box in here so they could inspect it.
AW So, how is it effective,I know that all that area used to be wildflowers and mangrove swamp. How is it effective by draining off all the water that is normally there. Wouldn’t that make the soil that is left just really compacted sand?
Well the basis is sand. This is sand, even in Caloundra, even where live, you can have a storm and in two days you can walk in the garden, the sand just takes it away.
AW So, the whole coast is just sand?
More or less. Opposite Jessica Restaurant is a bit of a canal there. On the right hand side down there I had to float a dozer down to do some work there. Aboriginal middens at Kawana
AW You had to float a dozer down?
No, we called the Low-Loader the “Float”. I was taking a dozer down there and I had just started when someone said, “Hang on!” I said, “What’s the matter?” He said, “There’s something in it.” It was an aboriginal midden, about six feet deep. They call them aboriginal middens.
AW And that’s a midden of oyster and pippi shells?
Yes, pippi shells now, from when they had the corroborees. And you’d get the inland aborigines come down at certain times of the year, feast on fish, some as our ones would go up to Bunyas and feast on nuts. They’d have this corroboree and just feasted on fish and pippis and all that stuff and over the centuries, the stuff had grown into a 6” or 8” bank or midden.
AW The shells rot. So, obviously that area must have been rich in seafood, in shellfish in those days. So, all it is now is just a little clear sided canal, where once it would have been a creek.
No, this was a man made one, but it had come back from the ocean, and had it back where the corroboree was.
AW So, they didn’t actually do it on the water side.
No, no. They’d come back to the camping reserve.
AW So, there must have been fresh water around there somewhere that they would have camped there.
See, you can even get fresh water running up, like Fraser. You get fresh water running there, more or less into the sea.
Fresh water springs in Kawana area
AW Up at Fraser or here on the coast? Did it happen here on the coast?
Oh yes. Springs.
AW Did you have much trouble coming across fresh water, you know springs when you were doing all the earthmoving for the Kawana Estates?
Oh yes, we struck a lot of water. We had to have pumps running continually.
AW And that was fresh water?
Mainly fresh water. I was working for a surveyor and he was down on Kawana Road there, he says. “Have a look at these old charts. Sea was in here at one time.” That was a long time ago.
AW So, whereabouts was that?
Oh, it’s one now, from the Big W, about a mile down there’s a “copse-timber patch” they call it in Australia, and it was all petrified stunted dead, on the right hand side of the road.
AW Is this between Kawana and Caloundra? That’s what they used to call Shan-gri-La area. Bokarina is what it’s called now.
But on the right hand side going down where the school is now, that was a very, very swampy area. One dozer was working there and I had to bring in a swamp dozer to get him out.
AW What’s the difference between a normal dozer and a swamp dozer?
Normal dozer has big tracks. A swamp dozer has, say a foot more width tracks than normal for semi floatation.
AW So it’s got like little triangles on the treads.
Yes, just like shark’s teeth, they’ve got teeth like that and that gives them a kind of floatation and they can go where a normal dozer can’t, in swamp terrain.
AW You would have had to use a lot of those.
Yes, they’ve come in a lot since then. I think Keith Lawrie was one of the first to start using swamp dozers, plus a very articulated wonderfulvolvo dump truck. He was the first on the coast to use them. Magnificent trucks
AW This surveyor you were telling me, who said, he was looking at an old survey map that said the water had gone in there once; is he the same surveyor you were telling me about that he wasn’t really happy about the development?
Well, he was a dinky-di conservationist. He said up at the beach, Ocean Beach, (I think it was called Ocean Beach Drive, last road between dunes), he’d like to see them five chains back for the people of all time.
AW preserve the from dunes?
Always, for the common weal.
AW Did he have any particular reason for that?
Just a true conservationist, he thought that should belong to the common weal. Five chains back from the original.
AW What is it at the moment because I know people can’t actually own the beach.
Well, they have houses n the ocean side of the road which personally I wouldn’t like to have
Land grants to developers, 1961
AW I was looking through the old Nambour Chronicle and I noticed that in 1961, the Landsborough Shire Council was having problems with the developer about Kawana Waters. Do you remember any problems between getting permits from the council? I heard you say before that if they wanted more land they just made an application of it and were granted more land to develop. Can you remember any problems with the council as far as the development went?
The only thing I can remember which was in the paper about Councillor MacDonald at the time was when Alfred Grant wanted to reduce the RL levels from five feet to two and a half.
AW What’s the RL level?
I’m not sure of that. Anyway, you find that out. And he said in the paper, “Mr. Grant,” he said, “your engineer made the RL levels at five, not mine.” I always remember that, it was in the local paper at the time. That was a bit of controversy.
AW So, what it meant was, the developer had to do more work?
Well, he’d have saved money if he’d come down half as high. But, as Landsborough Shire Chairman at the time, he had the ace card and hesaid, “Your engineer said that, not mine.”
AW And in 1972, the first canal estates were opened for sale. Was that Mooloolaba Waters?
That would be Mooloolaba Waters. Then they all took off from then.
AW I also found a reference to L.J. Hooker, he had an application fro Kawana, do you know any thing about that?
AW I just saw a reference to it. So, We are up into the late ‘60’s now. When did Point Cartwright, the actual Kawana Waters Development start. Do you remember that? All that area behind where the Big W is?
Yes, I had a block of land there that was a good position, where the Fisherman’s Wharf is now. That would be early seventies.
AW So, Mooloolaba Waters was there, experimenting to see how the canal estates would go.
I think, it would be more or less plain sailing after that, because that was a beautiful setup.The other ones wouldn’t be quite in that grand scale but it would be easier after that one.
AW Why is that, because they’d just learnt how to do it?
Well, probably, but they had the plan. They had surveyors, very well respected surveyors there; Hillhouse, Cardno and Davis and engineers. They just filled in their plans and I think it would have been very well gone into.
AW Did many of the people who were working on the project take advantage of their knowledge of the future investment value and go out and buy blocks of land?
Well, some of them could have, I couldn’t say off hand, I couldn’t be for sure but, offcourse there again, most of the chaps who were just working on it were young men with a little family, they probably didn’t have a great deal of capital and depended on a good wage.
AW It’s a big development, wasn’t it?
It was an enormous development.
AW A lot of houses there. I’m always concerned with reclaimed land because Kawana is an island, isn’t it? So in the old days it would have been Mooloolah River that was tidal. Kawana Waters canal, was that man-made, or was that an old creek that had been dug out?
No, the Kawana Waters canal was more or less a river in a sense.
AW That was just an off-shoot, one of the arms. It’s just the passage between the mainland and the island part of Kawana. When you first started this development, was that just a creek? Can you remember?
No, it would be part of the river. The banks had to be kept up when they worked on there. The same as when they went through to Mountain Creek place there because the river banks have to be kept up, probably developed along the same principals. They’ve got bridges over in that big estate. It’s huge. You’d be amazed, bridges and everything there. And I’m talking about Thiess, he wanted to do it at the time when they took over that from the firm that I think went under. They wanted to cut the road through to Tanawha, to the Bruce Highway and cut out Buderim Mountain which would be pretty straight forward, short cut. It might come in the future, they wanted to do it then but powers that be wouldn’t let them.
AW Well, there’s a new by-pass road that goes from the Currimundi turn-off, up to the lights at Buderim, so that would have been a very similar thing.
This was coming straight to the highway and more or less go round or come up over Buderim, this eliminated a lot. You see, this is Buderim mountain here, you’d have to go round there to get to Maroochydore, or go over the top or this one would go through here.
AW Why did you think the council turned that down?
Oh, I don’t know if it was the council. It could have been crown land, Lands Department, or it could have been private land or whatever. So, it didn’t come off, but I think it will come off in the future but it will cut the mountain right out.
AW Well look, in the late ‘70’s I read a lot in the newspaper about erosion problems with the dunes. Now I assume that’s sort of erosion problem along Pacific Boulevard along the front of Kawana Waters. What was the big problem, was if just from big seas?
Surges, big surges.
AW Where was the sand going to, because I know that the council started moving sand around on the beaches and stuff like that, so where was the sand being taken off to from the erosion. Was it just going back to sea orwas it being dumped further down the beach?
It is hard to say, the big surges just tear the guts out of the dunes and take the sand back in the sea again. I think this could be a cycle over the centuries. The next prevailing winds and tides will bring it back up again.
AW Was that a concern or was it when you were building that this was such a new area and there were no surveys of the cycle of the sand dumping. Did you, as workers ever talk about that?
Not us so much but I suppose the engineers took it into consideration.
AW Surely, when you were working and you wereup to your waist in mud, you were talking about how would it be to live here and all that sort of stuff.
Oh yes, well, somehow we couldn’t visualize whatit would be like. We never visualized it was going to be more or less a town, joining the two towns together which is what it was going to finish up with. My “base” was where the “Big W”us now, that was always my base. There was a hydrant there and I had a low loader there was waiting on a two way call to shift machines from A to B or whatever. And if you wanted tocome back for a short maintenance job, you come back to my base so you can give the mechanic a hand to get it going again, but never in my wildest dreams, I felt so lonely there.
AW You were out in the middle of nowhere.
Nothing there, very lonely and that is exactly where Big W is today.
AW I can remember along that stretch, just before you come in to Maroochydore, “Pisces Restaurant”. I remember when that was out all by itself.
Well, I remember when the council knocked the big dunes down there.
AW In front of the Boolereng Restaurant? When was that?
Oh, that’s a long way back.
AW When you first came out?
No, but I can remember there used to be very high dunes in front there.
AW Where you were working?
No, nothing to do with that. That was Maroochy Shire.
AW Yes, but I was just trying to workout when, what year it would have been.
Well, Boolarong then was one of the “in” places togo to if you wanted to go out for the night. Of course there are plenty of places now but they were very limited in those days. We went where the hotel was.
AW So, it was really the only upmarket accommodation on the coast. Did Caloundra have anywhere that was regarded as upmarket accommodation.
Just the hotels, the Perle and the Caloundra were revamped.
Surf breaks over the dunes, Ocean Road, Point Cartwright
AW I heard a rumour the other day that the surf has broken through the dunes north of Currimundi Surf Life-Saving Club. Do you know if that’s ever happened, early in the development of that area there.
I’ve seen them bumping over the top there up attop side of Ocean Road, they were bumping
No, up at Point Cartwright.
AW Oh really!
Yes, we got the tail end surge of a cyclone,and you could see the big fellows coming up through and over the top and just push the sand out and we would work up against it.
AW So you were working while the waves wet?
But that was the tail end of a cyclone. You expect these things.
AW What about the combination of a cyclone, a king tide and a full moon? What’s that going
Well, normally, the only thing is, any place where you’ve got an enormous pipe system, and you get a hell of a big fresh and a big wet and they coincide to a high spring, (which may come once in a blue moon), if the irresistible force meets an immovable object, something has to o upwards. And it wouldn’t matter if there was concrete or anything on top, water power is a tremendous force.
AW So, we have yet to see, so far so good.
Well, if that ever develops. It may develop once in fifty years, twenty years or whatever. You get the two forces milled together, tremendous power come down from the fresh and the high spring coming up on the other way and they crash.
AW Do you feel the engineers, when they developed or when they designed all the plumbing, all the drainage for these area, that they did as good as they could have?
I think so.
AW That’s nice and safe to know.
Oh yes. No, I think the dunes is pretty well stabilised along Kawana. But you can see it’s more or less a flood plain, you can’t dispute that, it is a flood plain. But the dunes are the wall work against the ocean.
AW Do you feel that nowadays, people are more aware of the cycle of the dunes of the waterways of this area?
I think so, young students at school are getting more enlightened in that way, which maybe in my days, we never got, well, it wouldn’t apply to me coming from the Northern Hemisphere. But even young students, way back in the early ‘20’s wouldn’t have the same chance as what they are given today.
AW Is it important that we know?
I think so. It’s all education.
AW Why is that, directly as far as futuredevelopment of the Sunshine Coast for these areas go.
I think you would have to look at, as far as the elements is concerned, plus the sea. The sea is a great unknown quantity, and the elements, I think they all have got to be taken into consideration. To my mind, if I wanted to buy a house, I think the best time to buy would be in the wet season.
AW Why is that?
Well, you can see what’s what. You can see if there’s any flood problems or leaks or what have you. In the dry season, it looks good.
AW In 1974, part of Kawana was split off and became part of Maroochy Shire. Do you remember that? I’m not sure what part it was but I know that part of it.
Not to my knowledge, I think it’s still Landsborough.
AW Whereabouts is the Shire division?
AW At the bridge fish shop there.
Yes. There was talk that they wanted to annex Kawana with Maroochy Shire but there was a bit of opposition and it never got off the ground.I think everything still belongs to, (even up Point Cartwright) Landsborough Shire. The river decides.
AW What about on Point Cartwright, before they built the groynes out into the sea for the ships: have you ever seen big surf coming into the mouth of the Mooloolah River?
AW Have you ever seen a cyclone or anything like that?
I haven’t had a chance to be up there, the only time I saw it was the “La Balsa”.
AW Can you remember when that was?
I can’t but I’ve got photographs.
AW So that was the raft, Balsa raft thatcame from Equador. Was that exciting.
Very, it was a terribly shocking day. It was raining.
AW What time of the year was it?
Hang on, my grand daughter was a very little girl. She’s twenty one now and she was a little girl then.
AW Early seventies?
I’ve got the photographs, it was a shocking day, it was pouring down.
AW And did you know it was coming?
AW So you went out to Point Cartwright and watched it?
I went to Mooloolaba Harbour, on the Landsborough side.
AW So, the groyne, the river, the harbour development hadn’t been done at that stage?
I think it had.
AW Do you? The new lighthouse wasn’t there at Point Cartwright, that wasn’t put in till late seventies. And these people sailed on the raft.
I’ve got the photographs, matter of fact I saw them a couple of months back.
AW Well, is there anything else that you think of that you might be interested in just in the history of the Sunshine Coast? Not just the Sunshine Coast, particularly this area, Landsborough Shire area?
Transcript completed 15 May 1987